Name: Deimos
Hull: Thorax Class
Role: Heavy Assault Cruiser

Sharing more tactical elements with smaller vessels than with its size-class counterparts, the Deimos represents the final word in up-close-and-personal cruiser combat. Venture too close to this one, and swift death is your only guarantee.

Developer: Duvolle Labs

Rumor has it Duvolle was contracted by parties unknown to create the ultimate close-range blaster cruiser. In this their engineers and designers haven't failed; but the identity of the company's client remains to be discovered.

Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 5% increase to MicroWarpdrive capacitor bonus per level

Heavy Assault Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff and 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level

If you did that you take away the point of the Vigilant which does this already, which is why people fly them over the Deimos in AHAC fleets.

Been running some numbers on the Deimos.

55K EHP fragile ship ?
1700 m/s (2385 m/s overheated) to a armor ship ?
727 DPS (812 DPS overheated) ?
Cap stable ?
All this without a single gang bonus applied ?

What are you complaining about?

Not the fit I would use, but he is right with his numbers

Gallente Cruiser Bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
5% increase to MicroWarpdrive capacitor bonus

Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff
5% Medium Hybrid Turret damage

Slot layout: 5H(-1), 4M(+1), 6L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 1050 PWG(+60), 360 CPU(+10)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1350(+190) / 1750(-290) / 2000(-531)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 1400(+25) / 255s (-80s) / 5.5/s (+1.4)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 230(+22) / .475(-.055) / 11460000 / 7.54s(-.875)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 85km(+20km) / 270 / 6
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric(+7)
Signature radius: 150(-10)

Here:

http://i.imgur.com/awemKOf.png

That one does not include drone damage mind you. Dps from drones: 158,4, 727 total Dps

Thats a solo fit, for any logi supported fleets that would be a total shitfit (due to how it would stack with legion links).

Strange. Maybe EFT applies skills to plates? Are you using the latest modified files? When I do the math I get the same result as you, but EFT does not agree apparently.

Literally anything at all would be better than the MWD cap bonus; A hull bonus, tank bonus, a range bonus, a drone hit points bonus, an agility bonus... ANYTHING.

On second thought, a missile bonus would be even less useful. But I think that's about it.

4. Why Gallente does not fallow the logic of all other races?
1x Heavy tanker / brawler + 1x Long Range bonus to optimal or fall-off or flight time and speed
Ishtar or Deimost witch one is the brawler for Gallente?
Deimost has falloff bonus, looks to be the long range one... but then Ishtar with the Sentries can hit over 100 km...

[NEW Deimos, Deimos cant brawl??]
Damage Control II
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Medium Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Explosive Hardener II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I


Hammerhead II x5

---

In large fleets when 100 ships shoot 1 target they eventually will hit it w/o any issues. No matter how small it is and no matter what transversal it has there still will be 20 out of 100 which will hit it and that hit will be enough to instapop it.

You're an idiot.

No.This mwd cap bonus is good dont touch it, the fact is you have more capa with a mwd fitted on this ship and it can be perma runned something that a vagabond can't do.I think if ccp remove it, it will decrease a lot his power as a shield kiter, i've do some test and it can be better than the actual vagabond with less speed but more dps and tank and a nice cap.

WTF is its role?


Brawler / Kiter ?

It has really terrible damage projection, and fitting. Now we are getting an active tanking bonus. Something that belongs on brawler ships.

but then caldari always gets dumped on.

Should any specialised ship have a utility slot?

...I think all their slots should be dedicated to the HACs role.

The current proposed Deimos changes are as close to perfect as they're gonna get. I get frustrated with my fellow gallente pilots as they want every goddamn ship to brawl. How many brawlers does a race need?

**** off! Not every ship has to be blob friendly >=[

You give up very little, it still does 500+dps, has 20k ehp, is as fast as a shield fit and tanks 1k dps.

Do yourself a favor and compare ehp values of an active tanked cruiser with no plates. Comparing a buffer fit t1 to an active tanked t2 is not really a good way to compare ehp values... Just saying bro

You do now i was talking about a dualrep fit that tanks about 1k dps preheat? Not about a buffer fit.

Its completly capstable with mwd on, it fits easily with ions (2 medium reppers + medium cap booster need less grid then a 1600 plate) and rails track nearly any cruiser (mabye not a loki linked vaga with halos) perfectly at 20km, no matter its transversal.

Ions at that range? 1.9 +7.5km with antimatter is perfetct range for a brawl at 500 tpye of cruiser.It also is shared by all blaster ships. And that argument is completely irrelevant, it doesnt matter that you can counter a brawler, if that brawler is op compared to other brawlers its op, not fine.

Eagle is not fine. It needs a signature reduction and speed increase to be anywhere near a viable fleet ship. Otherwise, HAC fleets will remain zealot only, as it is the only ship that performs at the ranges, damages, and sig to speed ratios necessary to compete with attack battlecruisers. I am not arguing for it to become a solo/small gang boat (though I'm certain you could try to make it so), but if it is to show up in any doctrine ships in the future, it needs a base signature of 125, and base speed of 200 m/s.

You have stated, Rise, that you intend the eagle to be a fleet ship. Please alter its stats so that it can effectively do so. Thank you.

I feel like a broken record, but clearly it has to be repeated if the devs are going to see it.

It needs a better speed to signature ratio if it's going to beat an ABC fleet pound for pound.

What are you suggesting it is to be used for?

Get out, you have nothing to say in a balancing thread, and with that attitude nothing you say should be taken seriously.

[Eagle, Rail]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
EM Ward Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Large Shield Extender II

250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


85K EHP before heat with a lowest resist of 77.3% Explosive, just over 2K/S with a Zors and 414DPS out to 79+25 with Uranium or 497DPS at 53+25 with CNAM.

Looks pretty good to be honest.

There is a difference between races beeing similar and beeing balanced, you can balance stuff by making it different. That in no way means that stuff should be op, beeing the best brawler/kiter in its class does not mean op, op means beeing a whole lot better at it and beeing to strong in general.Which the deimos with these changes is.

Fail fit eh? its not entirely hard to fit a med newt on a brutix shield or armor, not to mention dule newt cyclones, dule or triple newt prophecys, dule newt vexors, dule med newt navy vexor, duel med newt navy aurgors, and plently of other stuff.-áAnd just so we are clear 2-4 people vs one is not a blob, people have friends and they are likely to bring at least some so your more than likely going to run into more newts, ewar, or dps than you can handel eventualy if not right off the bat.I admit the ships going to be quite powerful but there will be counters and as the ship gets more popular more counters will be made, thats how eve works.

I'll let you know when hitting at like 150km with medium rails (even after the "buff") is useful. Don't hold your breath- the prolonged lack of oxygen would end up killing you.

Time to get on Sisi and take the new Gallente ships out for a spin.

Mumble, mumble, Vaga, mumble mumble, kiting, mumble, "useless" bonuses, mumble, damage application.

Eagle and Mun are the only ones that aren't really nice at something now and all the Min pilots are talking about the 'Better at Everything, but Somehow Worse: Vaga.'

I wonder if RISE is even reading this thread anymore.. there's is no indication he is??Vagabond, Eagle and Deimos still need help...

Yes i am, if you go OMG that ship is amazing the devs did something wrong. That only happens if stuff is op (look at ABCs, everyone was super happy about them, compare them to the new dessies, nearly no one was hyped which is a clear sign that they are nicely done).And it doesnt strike you as op as hell if 2 deimos can take 2 cs, 3 hacs and 1 bs up front and kill 3 ships ebfore they die?

Why should I, i dont have anything against you, nor do i dislike the deimos (i rather like them) so i dont argue to spite you or the ship. The only thing i do is try to be as just and fair to the entire hac lineup as i can be, my corp is one of the few ones that still uses hacs on a regular basis, so i can at least talk from some experience, i have flown every hac at least once and while i dont really like any of them (and i loathe all stabber hulls, cant stand them, so i really dislike the vaga) i dont harbour a hate for any of them that would cloud my judgement (if this was the falcon thread ... ).

I just report what eft, sisi and comparison to current ships tell me.

Mainly that the fault with hacs arent their boni nor their slots, you could leave them exactly as they are right now on tq, woudlnt change a thing, the proposed balancing is nice but not of real importance, the main problem with the ships is the price.


Other then that i dislike the fact that t2 resitances stack with rep boni atop of the proposed rep changes making them bad ships, sort of like the cyclone pre asb nerf, you wont engage them if you see them unless you are out to blobbing them.

I also think having a ship with buffer bc like ehip (xlasb vaga) that is amongst the fastet ingame will make kiting a pita.


And the muninn still is garbage.

Deimos has obscene tank when using a cap booster with 2 repairers, such that its pretty unkillable by another hac in 1v1 and has a permarunning tank. Maybe with neuts it could be killed but only a few hacs have the utility high.

WTF is your point... we're talking about a role. People keep praising the Diemos speed, tank, and dps... all of which get obsoleted and vastly trumped by the overall effects of a Claymore.

You just proved why the devs have no reason to listen to any of the praise they're getting on this thread or the Command ship thread with so many warnings coming from other players. You're a fanboy of something for the pure sake of just because rather than understanding what 95% of EVE is driven by.

I'm glad you can find fun in a ship just because. But that is in no way what EVE is driven on. People don't want their sandcastles so easily taken by the tide... and you're not understanding or perceiving the changes in the way the water is moving.

This is the issue with overlapping roles and not defining a reason to have a ship. If there's something better.... most people are going to flood to the best choice in a given role.... not fly a ship just because.

And you're totally missing the point so many of us are making in this thread. Yes the Deimos is better than it was... BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO FIT INTO EVE FFS. IT HAS 0 PURPOSE! It's purpose is just usurped by so many other ships.

There are 35+ proposals between the 2 HAC threads for how to give HAC's roles that all have merit and because you seem to ignore the 99% of this thread, you want me to list it all out here for you?

I have not said buff the Deimos more you dense ****, I've said give it a unique role. A role means a unique quality that is not currently being seen or utilized in game. Things like localized defensive modules for hacs that have unique limitations to define more offensive or defensive capabilities with limitations to how and when one can change out to either.... IE Cooldowns similar to switching on/off HIC bubbles. This means you can define more offensive and defensive roles on the ship helping necessitate which is more necessary rather than give a very mundane balance to each that is already seen in game 50 times over on other better ships.


This can create unique balances such as higher AB speeds, better resist, etc while trading off receiving remote repairs, projecting offense, etc. Essentially, it's a stopgap module that makes you choose what is needed most, while almost totally removing the other aspects at that time and limiting when you can swap to the other set of bonuses....

In other words, roles and balance without mundane mediocrity in the middle, but forcible choices by players in how to utilize a ship actively during a fight (something this game has lost a lot of.)

Seriously Fozzie, cargo hold on the deimos, 315 on an active tanker? That's 11 cap boosters if you want minimal ammo, seriously mate, cargo holds on all these ships are way over the shop, cmd ships as well. Some space please.

You just create a module that has an active and passive effect that determines where your ship shines and falls.... you could actually do multiple varieties.

For instance:

Active: Boost AB speed 75%, Boost resistances 50%, boost local armor/shield repair speed 25% --- But, Reduces Optimal 75%, Reduces tracking 75%, reduces remote repair assistance, Increases Cap Injector duration by 300% (IE slowing down cap injector rates) in total for minute duration

Passive: NO pros, no cons....

So you question yourself... do I need that approach speed if it's going to totally force me to rely on my own repairers and capacitor... or are my logistics ships all jammed and I need to boost my local defenses thinking we can't get them unjammed...and **** I'm stuck if they get unjammed, and I get webbed down to **** and neuted.

Anyone have any comments about the Sacrilege changes? Most of the recent discussion seems to be about the Deimos, Vagabond and Eagle.

Dual rep doesn't run on 400's. There's also this thing in the game called neutralizers.The Sac gets far more cargohold, yet has capless weapons, no rep bonus and a much stronger capacitor. I really don't understand how they pick cargohold size other than 'let's make it hard to do what it's supposed to do'. Big cargoholds don't break the game.Vaga cargohold is fine if you use an asb, which you probably will, but if you use a regular booster+800s, it's not great.

Not really. PLEX system allows you to trade activity for $/month which is what most do, Devs are reluctant to give them a pew timer on link activation so a neutral link ship on gate/station will be the new black and even if Devs give them the timer the CC tanks are far superior to anything a small gang can throw out in the 60s before he jumps .. you'll need a bat-phone to clear "solo'ers" links or avoid fights on stations/gates.

Besides, the generic dual rep Deimos will not make it to TQ as those fits are highly ineffective (dps/tank ratio way off) which means you are more likely to run into twin webs, TDs, TCs, DP and what not with tank made up of a plate+AAR duo of some sort any of which will shred a Zealot regardless of fit or pilot expertise.

Earlier in the thread someone posted a fit for a single rep deimos with 800 plate.

I was sceptical as to whether it would work so I tried it.

In this case, I took out 4000 rounds of ammo and 23 navy 400 cap boosters.
After scoring 5 or so kills, some solo some not, I returned to the station with no ammo left and... 22 cap boosters (20 in the hold, 2 in the medium capacitor booster module).

I can understand people's disbelief because of the utter sh*tness of previous armour tanking hulls. But we are in a new ere here, and it's a good one

Deimos - reduce sig radius

Zealot - could use some drones and more mobility

Have you even read the post 3 posts above yours? It clearly states why every hac would still be able to force off the vagabond.

Also stop with the 800mm plate stuff, in comparison, a dualrep fit pulls ahead of the plate/rep version after 23 seconds, in that time there is no chance of you having taken down anything with huge amounts of dps, so the buffer doesnt help you one bit. To claim that you are worried about alpha also is a bad argument, you easily can cyle reppers differently, meaning your enemys need enough dps to alpha over 9k ehp in under 4 seconds to negate your reps effects.

So unless you want to die to ratting abaddons change the fit.


Also, as ive read it a few times, never ever reaload a aar midfight, you turn it on and leave it running, it outreps a regular one for quite a bit, if you reload midfight you are doing a very bad thing and a regular version would have served you better.

I don't see why the HACs need to be specialised in some esoteric way. The clue is in the name I think. They are cruisers with heavy armour/shield designed for assaults. The stormtroopers of space. I think each one has its own unique specialty, based around its hardiness, ability to project damage, speed and maneuverability.For me the fact thepentire group offers a toolbox from which I can draw the ship I need for the job is a good thing.If I need specialist EWAR, I still have the recons and the electronic attack ships to choose from. If I need OPness, I still have T3s (although I'd be happy to see T3 ships quietly nerfed).

deimos needs to be a dedicated brawler, it's a gallente blaster boat for gods sake!

one of the best?
it's virtually unfittable and flat out worse than a brutix or myrm in every way. (let alone compared to something like a zealot...)

Ummm. Was that a typo? You said you couldn't find anything decent to replace the MWD bonus... and then its replaced with a armor rep bonus. Or did I miss a post?

you lost me at '800mm plate'.
sure, you can active rep it. then you can tank 1 other cruiser, barely. combined with the fleet boost nerf, it's going to be used even less.

what you cant do is buffer it properly, which is a FAR more common fit for any cruiser ever. seriously, an active rep bonus on any cruiser hull in the game should be accompanied with a troll face next to it.

PS: any solo active tank ship will always beat any non active tank ship in it's class (unless you are terrible). soooo not the point.

Also, shouldn't the Deimos then receive a significant buff to its cap? (more so than the general buff being given to the HACs) as it's losing the MWD cap bonus and gaining an active armor bonus? Or is the additional mid now a compulsory cap booster slot? (I was really excited about the increased versatility of a 4th mid but I guess that won't be the case now).

There seems to be a lot of uninformed whining on this forum by people who have clearly not tried these ships out on the test server.

I think if this is the path for the Deimos, it would be better served with a tracking bonus like the Thorax instead of the falloff bonus. This would help running a dual rep, dual prop deimos (kind of like the standard/old brawling SFI fit).

You are doing it wrong, dual-rep has not been necessary on rep bonused hulls after the AAR introduction, plate+MAAR is what you want.

And you still havnt replied to the statement that dualrep is better after 23 seconds and that this means the usual buffer doesnt count.

actually i've ben using it with 800 plate and single MAR, medium cap booster, 400 boosters. needs a small PG implant.

So you reckon that using a specific counter fit on a pirate BS which is 4-5 classes above indicates that it is balanced properly? Most of the others will have issues against ships their own size and some will die to T1 cruisers but that is OK too I guess, because a counter-fitted BS can defeat the Deimos ... the second you found that you had to think up that scenario was the second the little voice should have yelled "Waitaminute!".

Initially, like when that round two got announced, everyone was yelling '**** cap recharge, it's irrelevant'. Nice to see people actually admitting that the capacitor was worthy a round two :D

It has to be an 'all other things being equal' argument.

Were talking about an entire class of ships being rebalanced and the point is simply that some HACs are currently lacklustre, while others are overtuned.

Youre just another Gallente pilot obsessed with wanting to cling onto an overtuned ship on SiSi. Most on the other hand are wanting a somewhat parity for the 8 HACs.

Dont worry, it wont make it to TQ.

Its your continuing obsession "DO NOT NERF DEIMOS, ITS FINE, NOTHING TO SEE HERE"..

Use a MAAR, with or without a 2nd MAR and/or Plate. *Psst, it doesnt use cap while loaded with goo.*

also forum lurker here and i just want to point out that this argument in general right now is pretty hilarious, you wont or almost never see a dual repped deimos on TQ post patch, fitted like that the ship will have so little armor hp that you could essentially alpha the ship or bleed into hull in between each rep cycle. 800 plate (or if implanted 1600) + MAAR is pretty much the brawling way to go and you wont last forever like that.-á

As respectfully as possible, you are full of ****.

The Deimos, as proven on Singularity, is nearly unkillable. You put a reactive armor hardener on it and my god, after 30-60 seconds, your dps is absolute crap.

I engaged a Deimos in a Nighthawk with 5x HAMs and 2x Neuts. It perma-tanked 500 dps under neut pressure. That is not reasonable. With cap boosters? Sure. With a NOS or 2? Sure. With base cap regen alone? NO.

Explain to me how that's reasonable. Please.

MAARs sort of don't use any (capacitor)

Just because your Deimos can lose to a faction BS does not mean it is balanced. It certainly can't be killed by anything smaller than that unless it was specifically and completely designed to kill a specific Deimos fit. Nothing CS down can apply enough damage to kill it.

No way in hell you are getting that type of tank with neutrons, not in any form of cap stable.

- Its arguably the best HAC in large fleet with logi support

Right, you can't fit a plate onto a Deimos. Or rails.

And it's rack of ion / neutron blasters with 550 dps are certainly "small teeth."

On a side note, is the Proteus really that cheap?

So, as someone who doesn't particularly care for T3's personally (not in a, I want them to go away sense, I just don't like the skillpoint loss as it applies to me) I'm somewhat conflicted on this.

So rather than post an opinion I really don't have I'll toss in the results of a discussion I had with a very experienced wormhole person with regard to T3s and that comes down to a couple of points:

One, T3s are used primarily in wormholes because they allow you to put a good combination of tank, DPS, and utility on field for comparatively little mass. You can cook up various other fleet comps that can do horrible things to T3s, but if you want to go somewhere else in W-space and do things then you bring T3s, which means that's what you have on hand when someone else decides to crash your hole. Combine this with a dread-blap PvP meta for W-Space that kills Battleships worse than T3s and you sort of end up with a ship ship occupying a very oddly shaped niche that's rather hard to replace.

Two, T3s definitely step on the toes of HACs. They're more expensive but no longer hilariously so and field similar DPS, more utility, and better tank, especially in the context of small gangs with logistics. They make up for this in skill-point loss when they pop. If they lose most of their current tank and/or DPS then they also no longer deserve the SP loss penalty since at that point they are both far easier to lose and far less special. They're simply able to do all of the other things the T1 and T2 cruisers can do but not to the same extent and not at the same time, even if they can sometimes do them in interesting combinations.

Third, any such examination and re-balancing of T3s should probably come after the various ships they mimic so there is a strong base-line for where T3s are over-performing compared to their more specialized T2 counterparts. That's probably less than ideal from the perspective of a HAC user, but if you want to fly more Recons then you'd probably be glad for it.

The rest of Eve would probably survive just fine, W-Space on the other hand would need an answer to dread-blap and probably a lot of little tweaks to things like mass limits and site compositions. I mean, if you're going to yank the rug out from under the life blood of an entire area of space it's kind of fair to give it a transfusion, so to speak.

I doubt that HACs suck, or will not be used/useful for wormholes.
Especially peeking at Deimos/Astarte/Cerberus/Absolution/Nighthawk, all of those offer some of T3s key-attributes without SP-loss and in some cases, even advantages. In little detail:

- Astarte is competing with the proteus, simply cause green blasterboat. Their Agility isn't far apart from each other, their damageoutput very similiar. Remaining advantages for the proteus are mobility (goes like 10% faster) and sigradius. And around two to three times the buffer... ... ... (rhetorical pause) WH-Proteus normally got mwd/Scram (with hell of a range) and EITHER web or long point, I didn't yet shoot one of those equipped with a cap booster.
Advantage of the Astarte: No one will laugh at you for fitting T2 tank and you lose no SP on death. Has neuts and a cap booster.
The Deimos though is just special. Guess it's a scout that survives when fitted with AAR, 800 plate, dualprop. You'd prolly achieve better results tackling with a (cloaky) proteus, but that Deimos doesn't make everyone and their moms shiver in fear. Deimos is an OP-Brawler, runs one MAR on it's own - sounds like slowly killing drakes in c2s , waiting for them to bite.

- Nighthawk and Cerb... being the competition to the Tengu. While they are so much more fragile (Cerberus) or so incredibly much slower (Nighthawk) compared to a Tengu, a perma-mwd'ing Cerb with ONLY (*cough*) four times the sigsize and pretty much same damageoutput and still maybe sufficient tank could do, or if you are intending to chill around bubbles or directly on a POS brawling carriers: two med neuts onto the nighthawk, HAMs and a rig - and go 920+ kinetic rage dps. (mentioned the med-neuts that no tengu would ever have)

- Absolution versus Legion... Superslowbrick with accidentally neuts/smartbombs compared to a muchmuch faster and smaller brick that shoots much further. It kinda looks like the Legion is leading, but if you need to press utility into the hull and don't need that speed/range anyways, can stay with an abso for a near identical experience. On the upside I once slingshotted out of a lokis pointrange by overheating my active absolution's mwd. Never lose hope

None of those four T2 ships outperforms their respective T3-pendant, however they are able to perform similiar and sometimes almost identical given a certain task.
With the current Gap in punishment upon loss (like some 200-300mil for T2, or 700mil+ and SP for a proper T3), losses of T2 are so much more sustainable that usage of them is attractive from that POV.

Since that rebalance will greatly lower the gap in performance, partly due to utility on CS and the ebefing up of HACs (hopefully everyone agrees that HACs will be a lot more useful now [esp. Sacriledge, Ishtar] 8) ), T2 should allow rather new starting PvP'ers to directly advance out of their prophecies/myrms/Drakes/Brutixes(?) into a resp. T2 variant, instead of transferring directly into T3s if they wish to ever get 'guns instead of knifes for those wormholeshootings' - hope that makes sense and hits the spot.
So just looking at the tengu and caracal - now there at least IS a tech-II counterpart.

I actually can't see anything wrong with strat cruisers' resistances. Those resistances are jsut what you get for blinging up that thing. Only Issue I can perceive is *Buffersubs 10%*, *Local-Tank-subs 10%*, *those shiphulls are larger (!) compared to batlecruisers, someone please step by, mention that somewhere and adjust that sigradius to like two times or so*

What T3s offer beyond that is that of a cloaky dps/tackle (which atm only the blasterpilgrim can do, haha tank), the option of being a nullified cloaky 600mil cruisersized scout (potentially with tank or links) and that of dedicated BLOPS-logi (legion/tengu), and a couple even more narrow niche applications unique to the game. Guess it's not bad to have those roles enabled by some ship afterall, it just happens that you always build it starting off with a strat cruiser.

I like it, but why is the Diemos(t) loosing tank?

I want the HACs to meet a common standard as Rise went out of his way to explain

Not my standard. Not my idea. Not my universal terms.Read the opening three paragraphs in the original post .. thought I made it abundantly clear as what I was alluding to.

And that is where the whole thing breaks down.-á- Sacrilege got the sensors but no tank and no capacitor (+0.2 is a kick in the groin) but got a bonus that will not help it in the vast majority of situations it will find itself in. It will be sub-par in just about any role .. cost of giving its main redeeming (super cap, comparatively) feature to almost everyone without getting anything in return.- Zealot got sensors and a CCC pre-installed so I guess Amarr haters will claim that is a cap boost despite the fact that it is less half that of the ship that got a new mid, has drones and comparatively cap-free guns .. it got nothing else whatsoever, no tank, no speed no nothing. Will excel in one scenario, the same as laser boats always has .. the porcupine/swarm where tracking is irrelevant due to fields of fire and that is it .. no expansion of viability at all.Deimos got all plus a little extra loving (read: overbuff) and will do pretty much all roles with equal gusto.Ishtar got all and will do pretty much all roles with equal gusto.Cerberus got all and then some and will do pretty much all roles with equal gusto.Eagle is Eagle and is doomed to be **** forever more.Vaga got all but will struggle as sniper/arty boat, mostly due to arty tracking performance though.Muninn got all with a shift towards armour but will remain in an extreme niche

The Deimos is the beast we've made it out to be. You can't kill it with a kiting ship.

The Test server, the metric by which all ships should be judged on their quality

They were a gift to the ganking community, who were shedding supertankers full of tears over the loss of insurance, and that they actually had to decide what was likely to be profitable to kill, instead of the damned-near random blapping of anything that moved that had been going on.

I've said it before, and I'll continue to say it - the ganking community is the biggest bunch of whining "my fun is more important than your fun" cry-babies in the game. They literally want everything handed to them - better ganking ships, easier-to-kill targets, easier ways to regain sec-status, better drop percentages, etc.

I guess I'm just tired of hearing unfounded whining about how the vagabond has been in some way nerfed when all of its stats bar one (max speed dropped by 3 m/s) went up.